Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

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longleafsawfiler
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by longleafsawfiler » February 12th, 2013, 8:38 pm

nice looking saw, Jim. the tooth pattern reminds me of the Atkins 51 with less fleam angle. have you filed it up and cut with it ?

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Jim_Thode
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by Jim_Thode » February 12th, 2013, 8:55 pm

Longleafsawfiler,
No, the Western Logger saw has never been used or filed. I likely will not use it, I have too many user saws to wear out before I start on new saws.
Jim

Treeline
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by Treeline » March 18th, 2013, 2:30 pm

Starling_Saw wroteCOLONCurious about the quality and how old the Jemco saws are? I was just visiting a East Coast saw manufacturer a couple months ago about having some lance tooth saws water jet cut for me. He had stated that his company started to make a few saws for Jemco this last year. He had said the quality was greatly improved over the past manufacturer that Jemco was using. Hoping to see a sample if it is some of the new saws.
Speaking of the vintage Curtis, I have a 65" lance tooth taper ground, sitting in my vice also, So far, it files and swedges like a quality saw. The logo is only visable with good light outdoors.
John

I am curious too if the Jemco saws will improve if they are switching to a new manufacturer.

I took some photos of three Curtis saws I have in the shop right now. One is the oldest model with the nice etch, the second is an older Jemco, and the third is a fairly new Jemco. Huge differences!

Here is the oldest saw. It's a 48" champion tooth. Nice steel, Flat ground, a little on the soft side, but still better steel than any new saw I've seen.

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Here it is with a slightly older Jemco Perf lance saw. The Jemco has no curve or belly to the teeth. It's Also flat ground and the steel is softer yet and seems to be of lower quality. The older Curtis I can flex and bend it springs back flat. I wouldn't try that with the Jemco. The newest Jemco is peeking along the top, more about that one in a minute.

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This older Jemco, even though it is flat, lower qality steel, is not all bad. The teeth and rakers were shaped nicely and it has some heft for a 3' saw. After tuning it up, it actually cut really well. I worry it might not last as long though since the steel seems soft.

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More to come on the newest Jemco...

Treeline
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by Treeline » March 18th, 2013, 6:47 pm

OK, here's the new Jemco. this is a local trail crew saw and has not been sharpened. This is how it came from the manufacturer...

The blade is noticeably thinner. It's the low quality "bendable" steel. The teeth and rakers are uneven. There are chunky blobs of steel hanging off from the manufacturing process. Some of the teeth have flat spots for tips. Some of the rakers have unequal height tips... What a mess.

Here's the comparison of the three blades for thickness, newest on top:

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Some details:

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It's sad. :cry:

Edit... It's also painful to note that it is evident that someone took this saw out in the field and tried to cut with it. There was a tag hanging from it when I got it. It just said "DULL".

goodfeller
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by goodfeller » March 19th, 2013, 4:24 am

Dull. Was that the saw or user?

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trailcrew
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by trailcrew » March 26th, 2013, 12:46 pm

We all know to avoid Jemco saws and most of us have filed one or two (whenever someone wants me to show them how to file, I let them play around on a Jemco saw), but it's great to have such documentation of the shoddy manufacturing. Great fit and finish photos, Treeline. Can anyone provide such documentation on the other modern saws being manufactured by F. Garlick and Sons or the German saws being sold on traditional woodworker?
Josh

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PATCsawyer
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by PATCsawyer » March 26th, 2013, 1:39 pm

Treeline -- looks like you have the same Curtis saw I filed last month, right down to the sprues. Makes me wonder if these saws are injection moulded from pot metal. The saw came into my trail club from C&O Canal National Park with a note saying "saw need sharpening". I guess the Park Service must've bought a bunch of these as they are too common.

Saw was in "factory condition" only with a banana bend to the blade. Uneven rakers, unfiled teeth, and NO set, but with evidence of prior use. I prompty named this saw Mein Kampf. Like you mentioned, it filed easy and now cuts better than it ever did (faint praise).

Gavin Longrain
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by Gavin Longrain » July 13th, 2013, 8:26 am

I guess the blobs in the image below indicate nicks in the edge of one punch or die surface, or mis-aligned edges in the punching process.
Would anyone with practical knowledge of punch and dies care to comment?
Image

Gavin Longrain
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by Gavin Longrain » July 13th, 2013, 11:45 pm

trailcrew wroteCOLON Can anyone provide such documentation on the other modern saws being manufactured by F. Garlick and Sons or the German saws being sold on traditional woodworker?
For the money they cost, Garlick are good value if you will get one you sharpen and set yourself. I am thankful someone is still making saws in UK and I am supportive of their activities.

I took one out the box. The plate is .060" and flat-ground. I don't have tension gauges yet, but there are no obvious ripples. I measured the set from .017 to .033 inch. When viewed at 20X magnification, there are obvious burrs on the teeth. I could pass a.008" feeler guage under a straight edge on the first tooth I tested. Several teeth were blue in colour at the tip, indicating overheating from some machine-powered grinding.


The gist of a review at Bodgers Forum I have edited below :
JermyB on Bodgers.org.uk forum
  • :
    .... bought a Flinn Garlick 1 man crosscut saw about a year ago and I was surprised when I looked down the teeth that the shape was more like a rip saw rather than the shark tooth crosscut type profile (see picture below).
    Image

    I am guessing they only way Garlick would be able to achieve this [crosscut] profile is to file each tooth by hand which for a saw that cost £70 would be un-economical. I did a bit of research via Roy Underhill's book and good old Youtube to try and pick up some pointers. I decided that I would convert the Flinn Garlick tooth profile myself. The tooth profile of the Garlick is an "M" profile,
    [ Gavin comments: actually it is 3-toothed crown and so Great American] . From the limited research I did it seems as though this profile is used more commonly in Europe and it is a good compromise between ease of manufacture and cutting performance.
    1. Jointing (i.e. setting all the teeth level is easy to do by 'brightening' the tops of all the teeth with a flat file. I was surprised by the variation is tooth height on my very new Garlick

    2. This "M" profile does however throw up and quandary about raker teeth. The grouping of the teeth does not lend itself to a very uniform raker tooth pitch and so I just had to make it is good as possible (I think I went for 4 or 5 cutting teeth to every 1 raker tooth). I found the rakers depth quite easy to set, you just need to chose what depth you want (recommended in Roy Underhill's book) and then use a feeler gauge to ensure the rakers are set back slightly from the main cutters.

    3. When it came to shaping the new cutters this was remarkably easy with a triangular saw file. The steel is easy to work and although time consuming, it is quite therapeutic really.

    4. The last operation of 'setting' was not applicable for my saw. The set on the Garlick is good from new and so I kept it the same. I am told the small hand held saw setters are too small for large cross cuts and some people talk of a small hammer and hand anvil. The amount of set also varies with wood type but there are some good recommendations online as to the optimum set.

    The result is a saw that is now AMAZING to use . I would guess that I have increased the speed through a piece of wood by 50% easily. It is like bring a old axe head back to a razor sharp edge, absolute joy.

    P.S. DO NOT tried to remove the handle of the Garlick when you come to sharpen it (it is the norm to clamp it in-between two planks to try and stop vibration). They have done something funny to the handle and it will not come off. I think they have drilled the holes in the wood/metal at the same time resulting in large burrs on the entry/exit of the steel sheet which have now subsequently fixed the handle to the saw. I fractured and nearly broke my handle trying to get it off.
Dave Stovell writes about why you cannot detach the handle from the saw-plate ( Dave here refers to drilling the wooden handle for its fixings whilst that is on the saw plate. This creates a burr on the underside of the plate, which burr fixes into the wooden handle.]

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PATCsawyer
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Re: Curtis Saw Company St. Louis

Post by PATCsawyer » May 28th, 2015, 12:04 pm

Resurrecting this thread, having just discovered a Curtis "Western Logger" in my rack of saws (being fully retired allows me to better monitor my electrolysis tank and process all those rusty old blades I've been ignoring for years and years). At 6.5', it's a bit much to be hauling up and down the mountain, but it's clean and has all its teeth. The steel also has a nice ring to it when tapped.

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