Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

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Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby NEALogger » December 18th, 2018, 5:38 am

So here we have what seems like a NOS Simonds 22 Vintage saw, see below. What caught my eyes are both ends of the saw. It seems to me it was shortened/cut on both ends of the blade (don't know the exact length).
I went through all the old catalogs I have and I can't find anything like that. We're not talking about breaking end teeths here?!
Do you reach the same conclusion than me and if so, what was the intent? :?:
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Simonds22.jpg
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby PATCsawyer » December 18th, 2018, 6:25 am

Could've been done for convenience, depending on the original length of the saw and where it's being used. Or, the owner wanted to mimic the tooth pattern of a western saw by removing the end tabs. I have shortened a few 7-footers for use in the east coast woods where the added length and weight would be a disadvantage. I had another saw that was extremely rusty on the ends but when cut down to five feet made a decent saw.

Looks like a fine blade.
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby NEALogger » December 18th, 2018, 6:45 am

Beyond the shortened length vs diameter of trees to buck, are there any "functional" disadvantages/advantages for such a practice ?
I'm wondering if this is now compatible with the 395 handles, I'm assuming that both ends of the saw are "fatter" as a result (crescent ground), etc.?
Can you also educate me on the tooth pattern of a western saw, as far I know the end tabs are there out of the factory?
Thanks for your reply
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby PATCsawyer » December 18th, 2018, 7:21 am

The only functional difference would be using the very end of that saw to the saw to finish your cut. Most filers don't lower the tabs when filing eastern saws and eventually, the tabs are higher than the cutters. This causes the tabs to ride higher in the kerf when finishing the cut or single bucking and requires your saw to work deeper in the log to make that cut.

I'm not a historian, but my understanding of western saws is they were used in one-man mode when bucking, since the trees were too big for two sawyers to buck comfortably. By having a saw that could be pulled through the kerf with all its teeth engaged, a single sawyer could buck the tree alone. Typically though the very end tooth of a western saw would be broken off as a safety feature. Your handles have no finger guards, so be careful how you grip them. Also, whoever shortened your saw only punched one handle hole.
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby sandersdwa » December 18th, 2018, 8:00 am

I also see there is a Simonds 133 now on Ebay that is similar. I bought a Simonds 22 similar to this one that came out of a 5 pack found in an old hardware store. The story was that these were ordered this way from the factory. However, I doubt that since the packaging does not appear to be from the factory. Notice the one I have was altered to be somewhere between an Eastern end and Western end saw as they cut the two end teeth to allow a loop style handle.

The old preservation coating worked well as my saw has only a few blemishes.
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Simonds 22a.jpg
Simonds 22b.jpg
Simonds 22c.jpg
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby NEALogger » December 18th, 2018, 8:29 am

Looks like it is the same deal, except the end tooths were also taken off on yours.
Can't think of a good reason to only punch one hole though.
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby PATCsawyer » December 18th, 2018, 8:39 am

How long is your shortened saw?
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby Jim_Thode » December 18th, 2018, 8:40 am

The thickness of the teeth on a crescent ground saw are the same full length so there is no advantage to cutting off the ends to get a uniform thickness. The No. 22 is a crescent ground saw.

Normally perforated lance tooth saws are thinner, more limber and originally cost less then lance tooth saws. The reason for the extra support on the cutters of a perforated lance tooth saw is because they are thinner and not as strong as a normal lance tooth. In general there is some advantage to cutting off a longer saw to get a less limber saw. It is kind of like converting an economy saw into a higher quality saw. Start with a 7' #22 saw and cut it down to a 5' saw and the effect would be converting an economy saw into higher quality stiffer saw like a #503 Royal Chinook.

Jim

Simonds 1912 Catalog Cresent Ground.jpg
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby NEALogger » December 18th, 2018, 10:56 am

PATCsawyer wrote:How long is your shortened saw?
The saw in my picture is 5'
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Re: Simonds saw shortened on both ends?

Postby PATCsawyer » December 18th, 2018, 11:16 am

That's a nice length for eastern US and Canada. That, and 5.5' saws are the most requested lengths from people who approach me for saws. My six and seven-footers just collect dust.
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