Taking set out of teeth

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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby PATCsawyer » May 1st, 2012, 11:50 am

13 oz may be a bit light, but not for a small tooth saw. Perhaps you're hammering on too flat of an angle relative to the bevel of the tooth. Post some photos of your saw with closeups of the teeth.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby benjaminkansas » May 2nd, 2012, 5:33 pm

salmonCreek and PATCsawyer,thank you for the advice and instruction.I couldnot set the teeth with a hand anvil.I set a steel plate on the ground.I was able to set quite a few off of it.I ended up breaking 3 teeth. :( Its not as severe as before.maybey Ill need to joint one fourth of an inch this time.Im holding off on that though.Id like to learn what Im doing wrong first.when I heated them up I pulled away my torch when light to dark brown came.if the tip turned grey id let it cool then sand it to metal and heat it again pulling away sooner.I have some photos we took today .they are on my email add.Im trying to see how I can post them.On pay day Im going to look for another saw.this one has me whooped.I went out and cut a log with it so it wouldnt have total victory.one for our team.Benjamin.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby benjaminkansas » May 5th, 2012, 10:14 am

Maybey in a day or two Ill joint my one man saw again.I may have to cut a couple inches off the tip.Itll be getting too close to the forward hole for the handle.Ill see after jointing.I have noticed the shape of teeth on alot of saws dont look like 60 degrees.or it looks that way.Is that a good shape?It seemed hard to transition into the saw dust gullet. so I will shape the teeth steeper.and Ill transition the teeth into the gullet like PATCsawyers photos show.I also will put more bevel or fleam on the teeth.mine were mabey 10 degrees or so.and I will try to set my teeth before I shape them.I banged up my teeth pretty bad last time.I saw a large saw set at jon zimmers tools.I may get it.I will try hammer setting again first.I will report back when I get some results.Benjamin.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby PATCsawyer » May 6th, 2012, 3:49 pm

I'm not sure I understand your 10 degree measurement. Tooth in picture has about a 30 degree bevel, as measured with a protractor. A bevel protractor is cheaply purchased at any hardware store and worth the investment.

Saw is a well-worn royal chinook felling saw that is used almost exclusively on hardwoods. The 30 degree bevel is steeper than recommended for hardwood, but I find it hold its edge just fine. The points a filed with a slight shoulder, so that may help its longevity.

Bevel angle 1.jpg

Bevel angle 2.jpg
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby benjaminkansas » May 15th, 2012, 2:18 pm

Today after work I went to set the teeth on my now 34in. saw.I was able to set all the teeth but one.Its lying on the garage floor.I wont try to swage the rakers on this saw.It is just a tough saw.I broke one tooth on it,towards the heel.On my trial cuts it wasnt noticable.I wasnt able to set all the teeth concistently.After braking the tooth I was happy to get close.I guess it will cut fire wood logs just fine.Thank you for all the help and advice.Do some saws get hard after time?I sure learned alot ,and am grateful.Benjamin.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby Starling_Saw » May 15th, 2012, 8:43 pm

I've found that saw teeth can get hardened from sitting with a coating of rust on them after fifty years or so. When I get a saw that needs Set in it and it has a heavy coating of rust I will take a Mill Bast. file and file all the teeth a couple strokes to check which ones are hardened. If I find one that the file floats like glass on, it will tend to be near the ends of the saw. Even the best looking saws that are clean will occasioaly break and I've muttered a few choice words to myself. Try not to make a short bend or crease in the saw tooth when setting the tooth. best to make the bend a slight roll to spread the stresses over a larger area. If you want a deep set on the tooth like .015 to .020 make the start of the bend lower on the tooth, 3/8 to 7/16 from tip, and you get the set with less bending of the tooth. The heavier the anvil you use to back up the tooth the easier to set the tooth. I find that I will pick up an anvil I made from a short piece of steel shaft, 2 1/2" dia by 3" in length that I have ground a bevel around the edge, more often than the horned anvils that most filers use. Most of the teeth that I set, are on a steel plate I use as an anvil. I ground a bevel on one edge and lay the tips of the teeth over the edge and hammer at a slight angle just on the break of the bevel, the next strike I will hammer closer to the tip just a bit at the same slight angle so the tooth will bend with a slight roll. The bevel on the steel plate has a slight roll to the bevel as well. I will hammer a couple sets of teeth and check the set and if I'm within a couple thousandths, I continue with the rest of the saw. When finished with hammering, I will place saw in my filing vice and lightly joint the tips of the saw to get a good measurement of the set in the individual teeth. I will make any adjustments at this time by hammering in more or taking out set in the teeth. Normally the adjustment would only be a couple thousandths. Use an Atkins combo-jointer with a file clamped in it for side jointing. When placing a file in these, place the file at a slight angle so you don't dub the tips of the teeth when jointing them. I'm guessing that it would be about two degrees. When I have to take set out of the tooth I will use the flat side of my anvil and lightly tap the tooth to flatten the set slightly, about one or two thousandths per stroke of hammer, check often! I’ve broke a few teeth, guessing at a couple hundred in the last fifteen years, but considering I’ve set around a hundred thousand teeth, it’s not a bad average. Teeth that have been wisked, I will lay on my big saw anvil and hammer the tooth lightly and keep checking the progress with my straight edge until it lays flat on my anvil. Keep on trying, you'll get it right and you'll learn a few things not to do before it's all said and done.
If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.
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Attachments
DSC02558.JPG
staright edge across bevel on back side of my anvil
DSC02560.JPG
teeth of saw sitting over the bevel on anvil
DSC02562.JPG
angle of attack with narrow faced 2 lb. cross-peen hammer
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby benjaminkansas » May 16th, 2012, 2:59 pm

Starling_Saw thank you for the advice.Ive been trying to set the teeth over two small of an area.And I need to grind more bevel into my anvil.I had just put a slight one on the steel shaft so it wasnt sharp.I like the rolled bevel idea.you sugjested setting lower on the tooth.striking at the bevel point at an angle.when you go further up the tooth to set it do you still strike at the bevel on the anvil?Thank you and all the sawyers whove responded.this post went aways from taking set out of teeth,forgive me.Ill have to get my filing station dialed in more.that was my 2nd saw.Im now on my 3rd.Thanks once again.Benjamin.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby Starling_Saw » May 17th, 2012, 5:26 am

When I strike the tooth, I will strike twice at the same fulcum point, each strike point is beside the other, so I don't make a slight twist to the tooth. If I need more set I then strike a little closer to the tip, but still only at the fulcum point of where the tooth can still bend a little. I've seen teeth that was set with a single strike hard enough that the tip was deformed enough where the center of the tooth had more set than the outside cutting edge. I'm sure the tooth would still cut wood but it could create a small amount of drag if all the teeth were to be set that way.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby Gavin Longrain » June 12th, 2016, 12:07 am

Starling_Saw wrote:I will hammer a couple sets of teeth and check the set and if I'm within a couple thousandths, I continue with the rest of the saw.

Starling Saw,
Presuming your teeth are pointing downwards just how do you measure the set within couple of thou? Do you lift the saw up each tooth you set and put a gauge on it? I have long felt there must be a better way than lifting the saw up to measure current set, putting it down, tapping the tooth, lifting the saw to see how close I am, putting it down.

Can you leave the saw horizontal on your anvil and measure set from below?

Edit: Having now seen that wonderful [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_iQixWWVeY&feature=youtu.be
]video[/url] of you at work, I have answered how you do this. And my question still stands: Is there some way to leave saw flat and measure set from below?
Last edited by Gavin Longrain on June 12th, 2016, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taking set out of teeth

Postby Dale Torma » June 12th, 2016, 4:21 am

I was a carpenter for years, you would think I could squarely hit a tooth every time, but a few times I have clipped the adjacent tooth to the left of the one I'm setting , now I slide a guard over that tooth. I guess practice makes perfect. A mis strike with a hammer on wood makes a dent and a mis strike on a saw messes up a bunch of work. I like your guide and punch idea. Whatever it takes to do a good job!
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