Cant Hook or Peavey

Discussions about other types of tools, logging history, trail maintenance, etc.

Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby PackStringSaw » August 17th, 2018, 4:00 am

It's been quite a Spring and Summer clearing trails here in Southwest Colorado, with tons of dead and down trees from spruce beetle kill across our trails, 50 to 100 trees per mile on many trails, and 250 trees a mile on some. While the chainsaw use in Wilderness discussion goes on in the background, we've tried hard to keep our crosscut saws sharp and trails open. One thing that's sure been handy this year is packing a cant hook along. We normally pack one anyway on our horses because we're old and all that, but have also packed it in for trail crews this year, too, and it has proven it's worth.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby sumnergeo » August 18th, 2018, 11:17 am

Sounds like you are doing some good. Cant hooks are great but there is another tool that Tom's Sawyers use in the Tucson area that is a six foot heavy walled aluminum pipe. It is locally named a 'Kimmel Lever!' after the inventor. I'll look for a photo of the lever flipping or rolling two-foot diameter logs off the trail.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby PackStringSaw » August 19th, 2018, 3:15 am

That sure sounds interesting, would like to see it. Sounds like it's relatively lightweight, maybe a tool a hiking trail crew could use, not add tremendously to their total gear weight?
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby Trailsawyer » August 19th, 2018, 9:03 am

167904229_46RH5Kpy_89.jpg
Jack being used to eliminate bottom bind.
Another tool that is being used by our BCHW trail crews is a high lift jack. They are heavy, but if you have a good mule to pack your gear, they are worth the weight!
The jack can be used to eliminate bottom bind or move heavy cut logs from the trail.

Photos of our 2018 week long "State wide work party", which include camp, camp life, and some of the 75 volunteers, as well as trail work photos, are online at http://www.pbase.com/bchw/2018swwp
About 350 trees were removed from the trails, in addition to lots of bridge, tread, and brush out work.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby King Karri Tree » August 19th, 2018, 9:43 pm

GREAT photos and puts the story in perspective.

From the other side of the world it is not something we normally see.


Well Done that Man.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby PackStringSaw » August 20th, 2018, 3:52 am

Trailsawyer wrote:
167904229_46RH5Kpy_89.jpg
Another tool that is being used by our BCHW trail crews is a high lift jack. They are heavy, but if you have a good mule to pack your gear, they are worth the weight!
The jack can be used to eliminate bottom bind or move heavy cut logs from the trail.

Photos of our 2018 week long "State wide work party", which include camp, camp life, and some of the 75 volunteers, as well as trail work photos, are online at http://www.pbase.com/bchw/2018swwp
About 350 trees were removed from the trails, in addition to lots of bridge, tread, and brush out work.


Good idea with the high lift jack, Gary, thanks. How do you use it, chain up the tree if it's larger than the jack grip platform? Good idea, will have to try it - bind, as you know, slows things down significantly, and a simple way to reduce it would be nice. And your state-wide work day looks like it was a good one, too. Our San Juan BCH group has been doing similar work, the tree clogged trail situation is definitely front and center for us. This past Winter we put on a banquet similar to elk foundation type banquets, raised some decent money to hire a conservation corps crew for part of the Summer. Their trail clearing time, added to the FS trail crew's time, along with our BCH and other volunteer's time, has put a good dent in the closed trail problem, but it's looking like we're not going to get our system trails around here completely opened again this year. Last year we got about half of the approx. 600 miles of system trails open, this year it looks like it will be something like three quarters of them will be opened. We don't want to lose these trails, so getting them opened is key for us, and tips like yours will help - thanks.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby PATCsawyer » August 20th, 2018, 8:44 am

I typically just drive wedges under the bind. If there is a gap is too narrow to underbuck, I'll put a gap-sized log beneath the bind and start driving/stacking wedges. Using lift in this direction can unbind some pretty big logs.

16991819_1435326966542554_738411273126966266_o.jpg

IMG_0004.JPG

fullsizeoutput_15ce.jpeg
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby sumnergeo » August 20th, 2018, 11:39 am

Here is more info on the aluminum pole that has wide use on the Coronado NF. The crews are all afoot so light is a key factor. Photos in the works

Note from Tom Kimmel of Tom's Sawyers:
"Hah! I'd just heard from one of my Sawyers that the rangers down in the Santa Rita Mountains call their aluminum poles "Kimmel poles", so I'll probably never be able to straighten out the lineage.

Fact of the matter is that for years we experimented with all manner of devices to lift logs. Hydraulic jack (too tall, too heavy); scissor jack (not enough capacity, too slow, too heavy); heavy duty scissor jack ('way too heavy, too slow); cant hook (great torque, but too heavy, too awkward); sporterized cant hook (still too awkward). Then Joe Longbotham brought a 1-inch solid aluminum bar, which was lighter, and as my friend, Archimedes, pointed out, could move the world. But, it had a limited strength. Somewhere along the line, somebody realized that aluminum pipe has a much higher strength, for no increase in weight, so that has become our weapon of choice.

We got about a 6-1/2 foot 1" ID aluminum pipe from our local metal scrap yard, whatever happened to be in their rack. Cheap, too. I think ours ran about a dollar a pound, and it weighs no more than any other trail tool. I painted it bright yellow, so it won't disappear in the leaf litter."
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby sumnergeo » August 21st, 2018, 7:56 am

After re-reading the notes on this thread, it seems like there are two goals discussed, one is to relieve bind during a cut, the other is to move the cut log off the trail. The wedges suggested by PATCsawyer (we've done that, too!) and the various jacks are to relieve bind. The pole and the cant hook are primarily to move the cut log off the trail although we have also used them to relieve bind.
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Re: Cant Hook or Peavey

Postby PATCsawyer » August 21st, 2018, 10:43 am

Typically, my cut plan includes putting small logs under the piece I'm bucking to act as skids. Another long pole then levers the cut piece off the trail. These sticks are acquired nearby as necessary and left behind when done. Perhaps it's more difficult finding skids and poles in other parts of the country, or just as easy to horse pack a peavey. It's rare for me to have more than three people in a logout crew, and we travel pretty light.
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