Lets talk about set

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Lets talk about set

Postby dayle1960 » August 4th, 2016, 2:05 am

I filed a 8ppi Disston D42 Victory crosscut hand saw last night. It turned out all right but I'm worried I did it wrong. The saw hasn't been used in decades so I just wanted to get the rust out of the gullets. I did not take the set out of the saw, just put my file into the gullet and went about filing the entire saw. I did look up some filing angles on the interwebs and believe I got the slope, rake, and fleam angles close. What has me scratching my head is whether or not I should have beat the set out of the saw before I started filing. It seems to me that if there is no set in the saw, then the fleam angle would be very easy to get on both faces of the teeth. Yet if there is set in the saw, then it seems that the fleam would not be correct due to the set angle.

I know in logging saws there is an order of operation when it comes to filing and setting teeth. Yet with hand saws I haven't run across the order of operations.

So my question is: Should the set be beat out of logging saws and hand saws before filing so the fleam angle can be easily attained?

Thanks
Terry
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Re: Lets talk about set

Postby trailcrew » August 4th, 2016, 4:11 am

The amount of set you actually need in a taper ground carpentry saw is pretty minimal. More often than not, old saws you start working on will have too much. Wenzloff recommends clamping the teeth of a saw in a vice with paper shims between the saw and the metal of the vice on both sides, the several thousandths thickness of the paper will be your final set. You can also take a whet stone and run it evenly over the sides of the teeth to take some away some set and even it out.
As with sharpening timber saws, more important than the final numbers in fleam, rake, and set is consistency. In use, nobody will notice whether the set is at .004 or .007 but they will certainly notice if there is disagreement between the sides of the saw or one tooth is off-set.
Josh
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Re: Lets talk about set

Postby Jim_Thode » August 4th, 2016, 7:48 am

dayle1960 wrote:So my question is: Should the set be beat out of logging saws and hand saws before filing so the fleam angle can be easily attained?
Thanks
Terry


I say no, you should not beat out the set unless the set to too much and needs to be decreased. In either case you will greatly increase the chance of breaking to tooth off if it is flatted and reset. Even on a timber saw if the set is too much it is safer to hone or file the set off then bending the tooth.
Jim
Last edited by Jim_Thode on August 4th, 2016, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lets talk about set

Postby dayle1960 » August 4th, 2016, 1:57 pm

Will a few different facets on the teeth hurt the cutting of the saw through wood? Or does the saw need to be "right off the assembly line perfect" in order for it to cut properly?

Surly the old sawyers and filers said to themselves, "close is good enough" for logging and carpentry saw filings, but the teeth need to be darn near perfect for competition cutting and trim carpentry work. That's my dilemma, should I go for perfection on my hand saws or is close good enough?
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Re: Lets talk about set

Postby trailcrew » August 5th, 2016, 2:47 am

In trim carpentry and furniture making, there is going to be a show side and hidden side to just about every piece of wood you cut. As long as a western saw exits a piece of moulding on the wall side, cut quality off the saw is not a deal breaker. As long as your saws track straight, which is a function of set but can be improved through honing the sides, even a moderate amount of tear out at the cut exit can be managed and a very fine quality of work can be achieved. In furniture making, your cuts will often be finished with a plane freehand or on a shooting board. A dead on precise saw will cut better than one with some variation, but can you look at trim job and all other things being equal tell the carpenter with the sharper saw? I sure can't.
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